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The other day while out in the city walking near Columbus Circle I happened upon NY’s famous horse and carriages and couldn’t help but feel bad for these poor animals. They didn’t look happy. (Note: The following pictures are not indicative of a sick or “broken” horse. They are only meant to serve as a topic picture for NYC’s Horse & Carriage Industry)
Many of them looked worn out and used up, resigned to a fate at the hands of their human masters determined to use them till they were completely of no use to make a buck in the city that never sleeps.
I get tradition and all the arguments of those who are in staunch favor of keeping this “industry” going. However, for me I side with mayor De Blasio in wanting to see it come to an end.
It’s not because I’m tired of seeing it in classic or iconic NY films that show a romantic (semi well to do if not wealthy) person whisking his damsel off on a ride around and through central park on a NY night, but because I’m actually thinking about the horses that are forced to be the service animals and backbone of this outdated industry.
It seems to be the default argument whenever technology or a change to an “established” industry comes that people immediately say “I gotta feed my family, the kids gotta eat, or the wife needs a new pair of shoes”. I’m like F&*% that!!! Develop some new skills, become more resourceful, and/or adapt to life changes.
Isn’t that what evolution supporters believe in “Survival of the fittest”? If you become obselete adapt or cease to exist. We know people aren’t going anywhere. We always find a way to keep alive. It’s like when CD’s came out and replaced Vinyl or when Vinyl replaced 8 tracks. With all that said here’s a poll question for you NYC…
THEJNSREPORT
THEJNSREPORT 
Please vote “DITCH THEM” because horse carriage rides are UNSAFE, NO SEATBELT, and DRIVERS DON”T OBEY TRAFFIC LAWS. Carriage drivers sent their horses into ONCOMING TRAFFIC, forcing some motorists to slam on break, or HONK LIKE MANIAC.
Carriage drivers DO NOT CARE FOR YOUR SAFETY.
Thanks for your feedback. Hot button topic it seems so far. 🙂
Perhaps a trip to the stables with an open mind and a list of questions will help you? The drivers are more than willing to answer questions and help people understand the carriage industry. Rain Dove the fashion model did some extensive research after lasts years fashion week and wrote a wonderful blog on her experience. BTW that horse is very relaxed and content. Unlike humans when a horse is unhappy they will pin their ears back flat against their neck/head they will swish their tails stomp their feet they will look very tense and anxious and tend to be moving a lot. Also an unhappy horse can and will refuse to work and a normal human cannot force it to work if it doesn’t want to willingly. In equine lingo a broke horse is one that can be ridden and driven. A broken horse is one that has 2 choices either be a long term rehabilitation prospect or go to the slaughter house. Carriage horses and riding horses are broke but not one of them is broken. Ie broke to ride or broke to drive. Learning the language of Equus even just a little bit of familiararity with it would go a long way towards people understanding the horse and the bond they have with their humans. Draft horses being big have to work or they will die. To put it in human terms an obese human that does not exercise will die sooner rather than later. A draft horse left to his own devices will not attenuate himself so they work and the easiest work for a horse to do that will keep him fit and healthy is walking same with humans. Not to mention that drafts are capable of pulling 3 to 4 times their own weight same as humans and since the avg draft weighs 1800# an average carriage is 900# and add the humans well you can do the math. Also an average human can easily pull/push around that same carriage. And I would also like to point out a simple matter of physics in that the horse is not pulling a carriage but he is pushing against the collar which pulls the traces attached to the single tree attached to the shafts attached to the carriage whose wheel are free rolling. It is less stressful on a horses legs to do a carriage ride on asphalt than on a dirt road especially since asphalt was created back in the day for a better surface for the horse. That is all.
FamousNYLover: Speeding aggresive motorists, especially taxi drivers don’t care about any slow moving vehicle. Majority of accidents involves carriage horse.
Columbus Circle icident, two tourists were THROWN OFF THE CARRIAGE when Oreo got spooked and run and hit the carriage hit strecht limo and while Oreo was found by 9th Av/57th St.
Carriage drivers always hid accidents.
There was ALSO BOY RUN OVER BY CARRIAGE, but carriage drivers ALWAYS LEAVE SCENE OF ACCIDENT.
Also remember carriage drivers will never show you stable fully. Animal Angeles, and many animal advocate agencies went undercover.
Click to access The%20Carriage%20Horses%20of%20New%20York%20City%20%20March%202009.pdf
I have a farm full of rescue horses that have been saved from real abuse and neglect and have had horses (and been their advocate) since 1973 when I rescued my first horse from the killer pen. I don’t have carriage horses or an agenda to serve. However, I do know and can see that this is a happy and healthy carriage horse who is NOT afraid or stressed. His feet are impeccably cared for, hs head is down because his driver has scattered a small amount of feed and is allowing the horse to relax and “graze” which is a normal equine behavior. My vote? Keep the carriage horses and DUMP Bill De Blasio and his money grubbing buddies/contributors. Get rid of the horses and you are most likely condemning the horses to death and NOT saving them. FYI: Philadelphia has carriage horses and they are well cared for and not stressed by the traffic. This lunacy isn’t there (yet) so I’m voting with my wallet. I will stay out of New York and spend my money elsewhere at least until DeBlasio is gone..
Thanks for your insight, view and vote. All very much appreciated info.
Is there any other industry that might suit the horses better than being carriage horses or dog food? This has been very informative.
In reply to your question asking if there was another industry for horses besides carriages or dog food. First of all horse meat in dog food is not allowed anymore. Horse meat however is a delicacy in other countries like France. As for another industry horses in general can do many things they are ridden driven do ranch work gymkhanas horse shows eventing pony rides teach disabled people are used as therapy animals are used as service animals just to name a few. But in order to be fair this is concerning a carriage horse which for the most part are big 1800# animals. So what do people use them for? In order from hardest industry to easiest: logging, plow fields, jumping, dressage, carriage driving. Now you are questioning why riding them is harder than carriages. Because it is easier for any horse to “pull” something than it is to carry something. Carriages are at the top of the list because carriages are equipped with wheels that have ball bearings making them free wheeling and comparatively light for the horse and they like it!
Once the ban is in place, all of the horses will be sent to sanctuaries or to other farms, where they will be able to live out their natural lives. As it is now and has been for as long as the carriage industry has existed in this city, the “retirement plan” for vast majority of New York City carriage horses is to send them to a slaughter-house. If you actually care about the lives and welfare of horses, you should support the ban.
Most people do not understand horse body language. That horse is relaxed, totally not in any distress. Most pictures I see saying the horses look worn out or tired or sick show happy relaxed horses. Horses put their heads UP when they are stressed. Droopy headed horses are grazing or dozing. Horses with a back leg cocked are relaxed. Just like a border collie lives to work sheep or do agility, draft horses live to pull. Many get all excited with harnessing like dogs do when you pick up the leash….well meaning people are causing more harm than good because they have no clue.
School busses don’t have seat belts and they are more dangerous than horse drawn carriages.
Thats why there has never been a human killed for any reason during a carriage ride. Can’t say the same about bicycling, walking, or riding in a cab, but yes you CAN about a carriage ride! Seatbelts? For a 3 to 4 mph ride? Grow some balls will ya?
Actuallly two tourists who were on Oreo’s carriage was THROWN OFF because Oreo got spooked and their carriage hit the stretch limo and tourists and that carriage driver had seriously injury. There was another story that BOY GOT RUNNED OVER BY CARRIAGE HORSE and GOT KILLED.
NYPD also arrested Sal because he purposely misthood horse number because his horse was sick which police caught him operating very sick horse, and that he was also arrested few years ago for DRIVING CARRIAGE INTOXIATED and hidden beers in his carriage.
pedicabs don’t have seatbelts either and do all the same things you claim the carriage drivers do. next time get a video of them ‘sending their horses into oncoming traffic’. maybe the auto drivers need to be more aware of yielding to traffic since many of them don’t think of the carriages as vehicles. and the drivers do care for your safety since passengers are their bread and butter and getting sued for injuries isn’t at all profitable.
Thanks for your feedback!
Motorists, especially taxi drivers don’t care about any slow moving vehicle.
Even with Speed Limit 25mph or 20mph implemented on 59th St-60th St between 5th Av and Columbus Circle, most drivers are ROAD RAGE including carriage drivers because they always BREAK THE LAW. They have to follow same rule as traffic.
Keeping Carriage Horses in Central Park will not work because you have to take away entire public space like Great Lawn or North Meadow or Sheeps Meadow to built stable for every carriage horses.
Not all Horse Carriage ban supporters want Antique Electric Horseless Car. That’s only NYCLASS. No Walk in Park and Friends of Animal NY NJ is against carriage horse, but against NYCLASS’s eCar option which many news medias don’t understand.
I have seen many carriage drivers texting and overloading passengers limit.
If you type in Carriage Horse Accidents on YouTube, there’s lots of videos will come out.
I could say that about the pedi cab drivers or the bicyclists that completely ignore traffic lights and careen past the stop lights into pedestrians crossing. I get a nasty surprise from a bicyclists in Manhattan 3-4 times per week where I feel like they were about to hit me while disrespecting my right of way. What you say about carriages in traffic – not so believable.
When tourist were taking picture of horse carriage on middle of 6th Av entrance, there was grumpy carriage driver saying, “GET HELL OUT OF WAY.” It not just cyclists. They could also give nasty inside.
The unsafe argument has been debunked over and over and over again. No human has died while taking a carriage ride..unlike the safety record of cars, pedestrians and bicyclists in NYC. Honking cars and screaming protesters don’t seem to upset the horses at all. That, is the silliest argument ever.
Thanks for your feedback!
There have been 3 horse injuries/deaths in 30 years. NO human has EVER been killed in an NYC horse drawn carriage. It is safer to ride in one of these than to walk or ride a bike in the city!!
To respond in the best way I can I would ask you to treat the horse and carriages like cars. Most motorist do not think we have the right of way when we sometimes do. We do care for your safety and the safety of our animals, because without them we wouldn’t be here. Now please, do go help PETA kill some dogs in the shelter because thats really what they do.
Thanks for your comment
Please don’t accuse me I’m PETA or Vegans. I’m meat eater but I have seen carriage horse having close accidents. Carriage drivers never obey traffic or former ASCPA law. I’m meat eater, but I also enjoy eating vegan foods too.
Unsafe? No person has been killed by a horse and carriage in NYC, since the early 1900s. Compare that with bike, car, train and plane statistics. The Driver is closest to the horse. Like the pilot of a plane, the driver is the last person to want to get into an accident. Motorists HONK? And the horses don’t spook at that? The horses act like the NYC professionals they are. Any other lies to spread?
There were tourists who were serious injured in Oreo’s incident when Oreo got spooked, then tourist in carriage collasped, and Theresa Shaver’s incident when her carriage ride collasped because horse got spoke by pedicab.
I feel so awful for the carriage horses there too. They have these assholes that keep yelling mean things all the time at them and their drivers.
If the assholes would leave, the horses lives would be improved. If they started lovin with carrots and cookies instead of hatin, the improvement would be measurable 🙂
If you are going to write a sniffle and sob article about the poor, sad, abused horses, it might be more effective not to illustrate it with an obviously healthy, well groomed horse in a relaxed pose with ears forward in calm interest. Perhaps you could run out to New Holland auction and get some snaps of emaciated horses with sores, shabby coats, and discharge running from their eyes and noses. If you are very careful not to get too much of the background, you might be able to pass them off as NYC carriage horses. Good luck.
Thanks Flashdog. However, I don’t need to put up fake photos. I captured what I saw. It was freezing cold out and to me the horse didn’t look happy. I don’t care about relaxed poses. If you were a “broken” or tamed animal I’d suppose you too would appear with a relaxed pose from time to time also.
Broke means trained. Broken means ruined. What did you mean?
It’s pretty obvious that you don’t know how to read a horse’s body language. It’s also obvious that you don’t comprehend that horses like colder weather than humans. They are wearing a complete fur coat that provides them plenty of protection, and they have plenty of body fat and muscle to protect their core body temp.
Thanks for the info. Actually didn’t know that
So, how do you tell if a horse is happy and warm — do they wag their tails and “smile” like puppies? No, they do not. Do horses have thick, water-repelling winter coats? Yes, they do. Do all horses — wild, feral, or domesticated — exhibit relaxed poses when they are relaxed? Yes, they do.
I’ve lived, loved, and worked with horses all my life. Due to their mass and hair coat, horses are much more cold-hardy than people are; especially people that are used to being in heated buildings most of the day. Draft and draft-crosses (which are what most of these horses are) are even more cold hardy than other breeds of horses. So what is “freezing cold” to you is pleasant to them. A horse that is cold will have his tail clamped down and have his head lowered down to about knee level. The horse in the picture is not displaying body language associated with being cold. What do you think a “happy” horse looks like? What body language would convey that to you? Do you know what a horse requires, mentally and physically in order to be content? Are you aware that the American Association of Equine Practitioners, the American Medical Veterinarian Association, the New York Horse Council, numerous independent veterinarians, horse behaviorists, equine rescue owner/operators, and many knowledgeable horsemen-and-women have gone to the stables, seen the horses for themselves and pronounced them healthy, happy, and well-cared-for? Horses are not “broken” . They are not pitiful slaves. They are 12-1400 lb. animals that have a mind of their own. They are our partners and our friends. They like us and our company. And they have no problem doing jobs they are ideally suited for both mentally and physically in exchange for abundant food, shelter, protection from predators, veterinarian, dental, and foot care, and companionship. Some people say that cities aren’t natural for horses. But they’re just as natural for them as they are for us. They’ve lived in cities as long as humans have. They helped us build them.
Your insight is helping educate us and the city who didn’t see or admittedly know what the Industry really is about b4 now. Much appreciated. Thanks
You claim to care about the horses but you don’t care about relaxed poses. Sorry to tell you but that’s where your credibility as an equine advocate ends then. If you don’t care about equine body language but pruport to interpret it, then all you have achieved with this article is a parody on the ignorance of radical animal rights activists.
I appreciate your candor and criticism. Learning so much from the comments. Thanks a million. Actually, we love animals. Didn’t know much about the industry before the post but the great thing is we have informative, honest, criticism and dialogue. Keep the comments coming. It has helped more than you know.
The horse in the photo is well fed, well groomed, totally relaxed (Not “broken”). You obviously have never really interacted with these wonderful animal to know a contented one from one in distress. Try writing about things about which you have some real knowledge, not just parroting lies and distortions fed to you by radicals.
Thanks Sarah. The photo isn’t intended to be taken as a picture indicative of a distressed horse. It was of the Horse & Carriage Industry in the city. Thanks for commenting and your insight.
I really appreciate your willingness to listen to us! Honestly horses tolerate cold weather MUCH better than we do even in all of our coats and sweaters. As long as they are not shivering they are fine-especially when they are that well padded with fat and fur. Maybe take us up on the offer to tour the stables and talk to the drivers with knowledgeable horse people instead of naïve, brain washed activists who actually believe the lies and distortions fed to them because they have NO personal experience with the animals and like the drama (like poor Yuki Endo).
You’re kidding me right? “The horse didn’t look happy” Horses don’t look happy or sad, they don’t frown, they don’t smile. Most people who are ignorant about horses misinterpret what they see. I wish I had a penny for everyone who believes that a horse handing its head is “sad”. Or that a horse with a cocked rear leg is tired. But it isn’t. This is classic anthropomorphism.
Horses tolerate cold better than heat. Especially draft horses. That horse does look happy. He is eating in one picture and looking interested and alert in the other. Probably hoping you are going to give him a carrot. When you spend a lot of time around horses, it is quite easy to understand their body language. I have been a horse lover all my life and have ridden and been around many breeds and many different types of use. I’d be the first one to scream abuse IF I saw it, however I strongly disagree that this horse or any other city carriage horses are being abused just by the nature of their job. Driving a carriage is not horse abuse. It is actually physically easier on them than being ridden….
Thanks so much for your feedback. Learning a lot from this post.
Rather bizarre report on NYC greatest living icons, and you really should be ashamed of yourself for insulting the decent people who own, work with and care for these horses. How about educating yourself about equines? Then you may see how in fact these carriage horses are thriving in their urban home. However, thank you for the poll it shows people want to keep NYC Carriage Horses. Carriage On!
Thanks for your input Cate.
I had an idea the other day while thinking on this subject. I know they already have the bicycle rickshaws but how about replacing the horse and carriage ride completely with human powered bicycle carriage rides instead? We’d see the “best of both worlds” those who like to be driven around Central Park in a carriage and those getting paid to be fit while touring those who’d like to ride in the carriage. Perhaps the city could even have a draft for the out of shape NYers to replace the horses and pedal those pounds off. What do you think? 😉
i think I prefer looking at a horse’s ass than a person’s.
Your plan doesn’t help the horses or their drivers. A knowledgeable person of any age can drive a horse, and the horses need a job to support their upkeep. They cost a lot more to keep than you seem to realize. Sanctuaries are inundated with needy horses, and underfunded. They don’t have space or money for healthy, trained horses to laze around.
LOL on preferring to look at horse’s ass.
why dont you try that and see how successful you are s a business person. also while you are trying to think research what the care of these animals entails, then imagine their fate when they no longer contribute to their upkeep.. !!!! its called auction ship to Mexico slaughter and process to dogfood for your pampered pooch)
Thanks for your feedback.
I want to know why if those that believe the carriage industry is cruel and inhumane for a horse because of car exhaust, cold/hot weather, traffic, etc, why on GOD’S GREEN EARTH would you think a pedicab is ok? That’s a human being! Oh that’s right, the animal rights and like minded think animals are more important than people.
Much appreciated. Thanks for your feedback.
This is what I was aiming for…dialogue.
It’s not about the carriages, and it’s not about the Park — it’s about the HORSES. Even those people who have no interest in taking a ride have the opportunity of seeing and petting them. For a lot of city kids, a carriage horse may be the first horse they ever meet in person. They are each unique and irreplaceable — just like our pets. Come to think of it, the NYC carriage horses ARE pets, too.
You really don’t get horses do you? You would not get the “best of both worlds” by banning the horses. You would be putting over 300 people out of work, and putting the horses in a much more precarious situation, with them possibly even ending up going to slaughter- all because you think the horses “look cold and sad” without any actual evidence to back you up. Horses are wonderful creatures. I feel sorry for anyone who has never gotten to know them. There is something very special about a horse, something that no rickshaw could ever come close to. Don’t just walk by next time. Stop and actually touch the horse. Get to know the living, breathing horse- not just your idea of him. Talk to the driver, ask him or her about their horse. I think you’ll find that the driver is as proud of his/her horse as a parent is of their kid. Watch how the horse and driver touch each other. And then tell me how rickshaws would be the same thing. Touch the horse. Talk to the driver. I guarantee it will change your life.
Thanks for your feedback. Really appreciate it.
This is a great suggestion. Instead of looking at horses and imagioning they are “sad” or miserable, walk up to a few and offer carrots! Then watch and delight in how thoroughly engaged with people these animals actually are. “Abused” animals don’t push their faces into your hand or bag, asking for more treats. 🙂
YES!
Don’t we already have this? They’re called pedicabs. Please don’t suggest that any contraption is going to replace beautiful, majestic animals who provide opportunity to New Yorkers and children to engage and connect with nature. When my daughter was small, one of her greatest enjoyments was visiting with carriage horses in Central Park and offering carrots. The smile on her face when cozying up with the horses are among some of my favorite photos. What sick minds would want to deny this treasure to future generations?
So, because the horses look “sad” to you, they should be banished from NYC and sent to an uncertain fate? Does your heart bleed when looking at working humans? Do some human workers not look “sad?” Others appearing “sad” or “happy” is mostly subjective and probably more based upon our own emotional states than someone else’s. I don’t see a “sad horse” in the photos provided but rather a horse who looks at ease and comfortable in his own skin. Yet, because you don’t like something, this horse and more than 200 others should be banished from our midst. Keep in mind these horses have home, shelter and plentiful and nutritious food all the time. Take a look around Central Park and note how our wildlife struggles in these harsh conditions with little food. Where is the sympathy for them — or do you want wildife banished from our parks too?
I’m not saying they should be banished to an uncertain fate. Just that I felt perhaps there could be something better for them than that. As for people this post wasn’t about sad people’s faces otherwise I’d have done one on people who drink after work or the homeless on the streets etc. With all these responses its a good topic for discussion and actually making me do research into the industry, so if my post brings out this much reaction perhaps it’s a good thing. Maybe others will read, research and learn more about the industry too. Either way I appreciate your feed back and vote. NYC so far overwhelmingly in favor of keeping it.
Thank you for replying back. I would like to share a few facts with you. Currently, 3,000 horses are sent to Mexican and Canadian slaughterhouses every week from this country. Many of the carriage horses you see were in fact, saved from this horrible fate. Shut down the carriage horse trade in NYC and many more horses will be doomed for not having this safety net to come to. There are more than 140 pages of regulations and laws that the carriage industy has to adhere to in order to properly provide for the horses and to prevent any abuse or overwork. These are among the most scrutinized and monitored animals in the country. They receieve vet care, farrier care, good food, five weeks vacation every year and safe sheltering. They are even guaranteed retirement through Blue Star Equiculture. You should also know that many of the people crusading for a carriage horse “ban” are opposed to ALL “use” of animals, including the keeping of companion pets. Some have actually said that the horses are “better off euthanized than pulling a carriage through Central Park.” I don’t agree with such extremism and fanaticism. I believe that primary among “rights” for animals is the right to continue living — especially in a safe, well cared for and protected environment.
I’m glad you seem to have an open mind on this subject.
There really are not a lot of options for draft horses. They are bred to work, and pulling a carriage at a walk on a level surface is about as easy a job as they can get.
Draft horses without a job either in harness or even under saddle occasionally, are unlikely to find a good home. Drafts are more costly than the lighter horse breeds. They eat more, use more bedding, and have more expensive shoes. The few people who keep pasture puffs seldom choose draft breeds.
They are not “worn out and used up”. They are very well cared for and comfortable in their work. It amazes me that people that do not have any equine knowledge feel that they can judge how these horses are feeling. The further and further we get from an agrarian society the less people know about animal husbandry and want to anthropomorphize them. Ridiculous.
Keep the horses were they are. Theres highly trained and motivated people taking care of them right now and doing a great job at it.
Thanks for your feedback Glenn
Horses are very well able to handle cold and wet weather conditions. When our horses are out on pasture, they always have access to run-in shed. 98% of the time they will CHOOSE to be standing out in rain or snow storms. The other 2% is when they choose to be inside where their feed is, or we have shut them in when the weather gets very bad.
I agree with many of the comments made here; you clearly do not understand how to read a horse. They show expression a lot differently than a dog would (as someone stated). They may look “sad” to you, but clearly that is not the case with this horse and a majority of the others that typically receive better care than a lot of humans!
Thanks for your feedback. Did you vote?
They are healthy, they are happy, they are loved and very well cared for. They get love and attention and more treats than most horses. These horses love their life and their people. It is only those who anthropomorphize them that don’t seem to understand that.
Thanks for your feedback!
Dude, if you look half as good as these horses when “you” are used up, then you will be blessed! Are you accepting money from the clowns who are trying to ban them? Sure sounds like it!
Actually no we aren’t funded. Thanks though for the feedback. Learning a lot from you all. Keep it coming.
You are learning the vitriol and nasty attitudes of those wanting to ban the carriages. Keep listening and you might find a truly award winning story! 🙂
Keep the very well cared for NYC carriage horses and ditch De Blasio.
Anyone who actually knows a bit about horses can see that these horses are relaxed, content, and in fine condition.
Thanks for your feedback!
There is no reason to “Ditch ‘Em” and every reason to “Keep ‘Em.” People love taking carriage rides and these horses have good homes. Right now we are trying to find homes for 150 young horses who were rescued out of 3,500 or so that were sold directly to slaughter in Mexico. You don’t take horses that already have good homes out of their good homes. It’s that simple. It’s just common sense.
Everyone should vote “Keep ‘Em.” People love to see the horses and carriages and take carriage ride, and the horses have good homes. Right now we have adopted nine out of 150 young horses that were rescued for slaughter. Their herd was 3,500 strong, and the rest went to slaughter in Mexico. The NYC carriage horses already have good homes, and they need to stay in those homes. It’s that simple. It’s just common sense.
How long will this poll stay up? Until you get the result you want? Or is there a time limit on it? Just curious.
This poll isn’t about me getting the results “I want” merely as tool to measure other peoples feelings on the topic. I appreciate the dialogue and feedback. Thanks for commenting
Alas, we all know that Internet polls can be skewed by repeat votes if you know how to “get around” them. What matters more is who bothers to comment and what factual information they choose to present.
There is generally a one week time limit set by default for the poll.
Relaxed, healthy, contented looking horse, as are all the carriage horses I’ve seen. This is the most highly regulated equine activity there is…and carriage horses live a draft horse’s dream life. Petted, fed, vetted, exercised, regular farrier care…people loving on them all the time…the worst issue in their lives are the “activists” screaming hate, shouting and waving placards in their faces…stop that and they have no issues. Sure, NYC air might not be the healthiest to breathe…but no one claims that parents of children in NYC are committing child abuse by living there, or argues that a dog being walked in Central Park is inhaling fumes on his walk and so should be euthanized. There is simply no logical reason to “ditch them” and throw 300 families out of work. The drivers and caretakers of these horses are horsemen & horsewomen…not taxi drivers. Their lives are working with horses…it’s not just a job, it’s an irreplaceable way of life, which, perhaps, is not something non-horse people can understand, but is very true, nonetheless. I have two rescues of my own, and volunteer at a local rescue. I’ve seen horses abandoned by their owners brought in by the sheriff’s department that were like walking skeletons…perhaps time and money being spent on harassing the carriage trade could be better spent on care and rehabilitation for them? I do what I can, as do many others…but still tens of thousands go to slaughter each year because there are no homes available, and we can’t take them all in, because we can’t feed them all. Seeking to ban the carriage horses is not animal welfare, or even “animal rights”…it’s humans that either don’t understand or are willfully ignorant of horses projecting emotions and feelings on them that they simply don’t have. Horses aren’t big puppy dogs…and no matter where they live, they need to live out of doors, so “cold” isn’t a factor because they’re born to withstand cold…and in fact, like it better than heat! Their digestive processes generate heat…a well fed horse will stay warm…and judging from their rumps, they’re all very well fed…in fact, without daily exercise they’d be in danger of obesity. Don’t seek to deprive the children (and adults) of NYC of one of the few chances they have to be around horses…because as the saying goes, “there is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a human.”
AGREE
I see these horses every day. They look content, well cared for and living with purpose. All any of us need to thrive. Leave them be.
Many excellent comments have been offered. Please educate yourself on equine behavior, needs and the fate of the Unwanted Horse in America. The animal rights people make such ridiculous statements like “The horses are cold. Set them free.” If horses run free, do they think there is a barn and food for them? Free means no one takes care of them. Free means : No food, no shelter, enduring extremes of weather 24/7, no Veterinary care. Is this the life they want the carriage horses to live? Historically, NYC carriage horses live well into their 20’s and 30’s under papered conditions. A “wild” horse lives maybe half that time under harsh conditions. Live Long and Prosper.
I should have clarified for everyone the picture is meant just as a topic picture not to say this is an example of a distressed horse. I do appreciate though all of the feed back keep it coming everyone.
I visited Yuki Endo’s link. It is full of anthropomorphism and supposition. Those steep ramps the protesters are so concerned about are called “hills” when they are outdoors. One comment complained that the barn wasn’t air conditioned. The only stable I’ve ever been in that had any kind of climate control is at the vet hospital where sick horses can’t cope like healthy horses can. The horse van seen in NYC and at New Holland Auction could have been different vehicles. There are a lot of vans that look like that, and even if the plates were a match, a van for hire could be picking up horses from anywhere. I could go on and on, but you get my point. Lots of speculation and anthropomorphism and darn few facts. That’s the hallmark of animal rights activists – all emotion and no practical knowledge.
Yuki continues to spread the lies and disinformation of the ARAs. One accident has been blown completely out of proportion, and used as a rallying cry to ban an entire industry. Using that line of reasoning, we would have to call for a ban on all motorized and human propelled vehicles which are infinitely more dangerous.
His other “story” is just that. A story. Let’s see him provide a legitimate link to it.
Yep. Yuki has drunk the Kool aid and is spreading the poison. Sad-seems like otherwise a nice young kid
Dana Wittington: You are very misinformed. First, the horses are privately owned. if a ban takes place, they would most likely be sold privately. You can’t confiscate the horses and send them to the imaginary sanctuary you’ve been told about. There are thousands of horses in desperate need of homes. Banning the carriage horses would exacerbate the problem.
How funny that Yuki keeps insisting people are killed, yet offers no documentation to prove that..somehow, as if saying it enough, people will believe..Sorry Yuki..a citizen cannot cover up death and serious accidents..oh, and when did Oreo spook and run? how many years ago? Out of how many carriage horses? Sorry, safest from of transportation in NYC..the statistics prove it.
One other thing I should have mentioned…I’ve done my research on the horse drawn carriages…and both the American Veterinary Medical Association and the American Equine Practitioners Association, both highly respected organizations with no reason for bias, did their own independent research and concluded that the horses are not abused, they are in excellent health and spirits, well cared for by their owners and drivers, and are in no danger from living in NYC. If you are undecided, perhaps you might consider their opinions as having a little more weight than someone with zero knowledge of horses who has decided that Black Beauty was a true story and therefore all carriage horses are abused. If there is any danger to these horses at all, I would imagine it will come from “activists” who are hoping to see accidents to further their cause, or well meaning but ignorant (and I don’t mean that as a perjorative) people who want to “set them free”. “Free” horses are uncared for horses…and for the domesticated carriage horses…free is a death sentence.
It seems that the administrator of this site is genuinely interested in understanding this complex situation, which is very good. One thing that’s always seemed to be a disconnect for me is that the anti-carriage people say that sanctuary spaces are readily available for all the horses, while most people who have any knowledge of horses say that can’t possibly be true. If the admin here wishes to do further research, may I suggest setting up a spreadsheet with at least 150 lines; one for each horse needing a sanctuary space. Then in the next columns, put in the name and contact info of the sanctuary ready to take that particular horse should he or she need a new home. If some private individuals come forth, please make sure they have the necessary amount of land for a horse, and fencing appropriate for a large animal. Contact a horse transportation company to get the estimated cost of trailering the horse to the new home. A quick internet search could also supply info on how much a large horse eats per day, and the cost to feed it. It’s winter, pastures are bare, and may be snow-covered. Any decision to ban the horses needs to be done with full awareness of the facts, and the consequences.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts
And unfortunately all of the good argument above totally ignores the fact that the horses are private property! They are OWNED by human beings who have taken good care of them. They can not legally be seized and taken to rescues even if there were spaces (which there are not).
Yuki, look, you hate the carriages, but you love mass transit.
I’m sorry to tell you that I support the carriages and the equines AND yes, I STILL love mass transit. (Unlike you, Yuki.)
Stop being a voice box to NYCLASS, PeTA, and the ALDF. They will make 220 Equines extinct and put 300 of those Carriage Operators homeless. Yuki, as a former friend, stop trying to wish extinction on the Horses that are a historical significance to The Big Apple.
THEJNSREPORT you seem to be open to learning more about this issue and I hope that is true. Many of us did not know a lot about horses when we started, some of us even thought they looked sad – but we studied and learned – we visited the stables, met with the drivers, spent time with the horses, read independent vet reports and horse rescue group reports – and then concluded that horse can thrive in a wide ranges of circumstances and that the NYC horses are well cared for and not worked too hard (the carriages are quite light to them given their size). We become very frustrated because without exception, none of the people pushing for a ban have even taken the time to come to the stables or meet the horses or their drivers. They are not willing to get past a strictly emotional viewpoint. We have much literature that can be shared. A lot of information is available at http://www.savenychorsecarriages.com/ Also please consider that in the United States over 100,000 horses are killed every year because no one will care for them. Many of us feel that the proponents of the ban should spend their time trying to save some of those horses rather than attacking these 220 or so horses who have jobs and people to care for them. Please keep an open mind.
The Animal Rights Groups pushing for a ban are radicals who feel that animals are better off dead than enslaved by humans. Really. They don’t believe in keeping pets either. They want all animals to live free of human tyranny which is a death sentence for most. They take advantage of well meaning people with no experience with horses and convince them they want what is best for them but they don’t. Horses are one of the most adaptable animals on earth. Human civilization would not be where it is today without horses. Horses have lived in cities as cities have grown around the globe. People get hung up on how old the stables are not how well cared for the horses are. Stables don’t have to be new and shiny to be safe and healthy. IF this ban goes through, it will devastate carriage drivers in cities around the world. It will cause many horses to be sold for meat. There is no way most carriage owners can afford to keep them as simply pets especially after their stables are torn down for the real estate.
You should read this article: http://www.bedlamfarm.com/2014/12/16/animal-rights-and-abuse-the-border-collie-and-the-carriage-horse/
Thanks for the link